1 00:00:13,170 --> 00:00:35,400 [Music] 2 00:00:43,490 --> 00:00:38,140 [Laughter] 3 00:00:45,320 --> 00:00:43,500 okay and we'll though now alright 4 00:00:47,750 --> 00:00:45,330 everyone welcome to the show thanks so 5 00:00:50,869 --> 00:00:47,760 much we have Australia being represented 6 00:00:52,160 --> 00:00:50,879 the Victoria you well you explained you 7 00:00:54,920 --> 00:00:52,170 worry if they hack you from and how you 8 00:00:56,750 --> 00:00:54,930 got here okay yeah thanks man my name's 9 00:01:01,100 --> 00:00:56,760 Ben Hill I'm the director of Victorian 10 00:01:03,170 --> 00:01:01,110 UFO action and we are the primary group 11 00:01:06,410 --> 00:01:03,180 in Victoria that investigates UFO 12 00:01:09,440 --> 00:01:06,420 sightings in our state we've decided 13 00:01:11,180 --> 00:01:09,450 that we'd like to get out there and you 14 00:01:12,470 --> 00:01:11,190 know see the world are supposed to a 15 00:01:14,960 --> 00:01:12,480 certain extent and what better way to 16 00:01:17,090 --> 00:01:14,970 start than by coming to the 17 00:01:19,430 --> 00:01:17,100 International UFO Congress here in 18 00:01:21,680 --> 00:01:19,440 Phoenix so we've decided that we'd do a 19 00:01:23,290 --> 00:01:21,690 bit of a road trip and we landed in Las 20 00:01:27,130 --> 00:01:23,300 Vegas and we've been all through 21 00:01:29,569 --> 00:01:27,140 Northern Nevada and northern Arizona and 22 00:01:31,550 --> 00:01:29,579 we're now here in Phoenix for the for 23 00:01:33,109 --> 00:01:31,560 the week and we're really having a great 24 00:01:35,749 --> 00:01:33,119 time meeting all these different people 25 00:01:38,389 --> 00:01:35,759 there around the UFO phenomenon people 26 00:01:39,410 --> 00:01:38,399 doing all sorts of different work in the 27 00:01:41,899 --> 00:01:39,420 phenomenon coming in from different 28 00:01:43,789 --> 00:01:41,909 perspectives and really there's there's 29 00:01:46,520 --> 00:01:43,799 there's just so many conversations you 30 00:01:48,440 --> 00:01:46,530 can have with anyone standing in the 31 00:02:01,010 --> 00:01:48,450 corner or talk to a major presenter it 32 00:02:02,749 --> 00:02:01,020 really is a great opportunity well it's 33 00:02:04,670 --> 00:02:02,759 really I think Jim and Chris that were 34 00:02:07,069 --> 00:02:04,680 was where the the genesis of the idea 35 00:02:09,800 --> 00:02:07,079 started and you think about what it 36 00:02:11,600 --> 00:02:09,810 takes to get six people to get time off 37 00:02:13,670 --> 00:02:11,610 work and have the money and all those 38 00:02:15,290 --> 00:02:13,680 type of things to pull it off so it 39 00:02:18,710 --> 00:02:15,300 certainly had been in the pipeline for 40 00:02:21,080 --> 00:02:18,720 might say well over six months or so for 41 00:02:24,380 --> 00:02:21,090 us to all agree that we could go ask our 42 00:02:25,760 --> 00:02:24,390 bosses for time off etc etc so it's sort 43 00:02:27,500 --> 00:02:25,770 of is really quite special that we're 44 00:02:29,030 --> 00:02:27,510 able to get you know six people from our 45 00:02:31,850 --> 00:02:29,040 small group which is practically half 46 00:02:34,250 --> 00:02:31,860 the group to be able to travel to the 47 00:02:37,940 --> 00:02:36,259 arian I will talk a little bit about it 48 00:02:41,390 --> 00:02:37,950 Australia is actually one of the top 49 00:02:44,270 --> 00:02:41,400 listeners to this show your country of 50 00:02:46,429 --> 00:02:44,280 26 million or so people and you're 51 00:02:49,339 --> 00:02:46,439 number three usually when I checked it 52 00:02:51,259 --> 00:02:49,349 to sometimes even two so let's start 53 00:02:53,720 --> 00:02:51,269 change the start at this end right here 54 00:02:56,420 --> 00:02:53,730 and a little bit about each you and what 55 00:02:57,229 --> 00:02:56,430 got you interested in the subject thanks 56 00:02:59,390 --> 00:02:57,239 Martin 57 00:03:01,550 --> 00:02:59,400 I came kind of I'm an architect by 58 00:03:04,520 --> 00:03:01,560 profession coming out of the design in 59 00:03:08,059 --> 00:03:04,530 design industry I kind of came through 60 00:03:11,420 --> 00:03:08,069 the aerospace as an enthusiast in that 61 00:03:16,490 --> 00:03:11,430 field largely drawn by the writings and 62 00:03:18,349 --> 00:03:16,500 work of dr. Edgar Mitchell and one goes 63 00:03:20,660 --> 00:03:18,359 as I say down the rabbit hole and I just 64 00:03:21,920 --> 00:03:20,670 kept going and made a trip to the US and 65 00:03:23,990 --> 00:03:21,930 made another trip to the US and met a 66 00:03:27,589 --> 00:03:24,000 few people and it just it just keeps 67 00:03:30,259 --> 00:03:27,599 going basically early on I came to the 68 00:03:32,949 --> 00:03:30,269 conclusion that the the at its core the 69 00:03:35,210 --> 00:03:32,959 phenomena is real and I became fairly 70 00:03:39,199 --> 00:03:35,220 obsessed with finding out what's going 71 00:03:40,909 --> 00:03:39,209 on so that's that's what got me into it 72 00:03:45,080 --> 00:03:40,919 but of course once you started there's 73 00:03:46,250 --> 00:03:45,090 no way out is it as we all know but yeah 74 00:03:47,390 --> 00:03:46,260 so you know to get into the action 75 00:03:49,699 --> 00:03:47,400 you've got to come to the u.s. let's 76 00:03:51,759 --> 00:03:49,709 face it that's ground zero for pretty 77 00:03:53,119 --> 00:03:51,769 much everything that's going on oh 78 00:03:55,339 --> 00:03:53,129 absolutely 79 00:03:56,720 --> 00:03:55,349 Australia is a small country and really 80 00:03:58,849 --> 00:03:56,730 not a lot goes on there and you know in 81 00:04:00,619 --> 00:03:58,859 the field now we have the same problems 82 00:04:01,729 --> 00:04:00,629 that you have here and that in terms of 83 00:04:03,710 --> 00:04:01,739 the media and the general public 84 00:04:06,140 --> 00:04:03,720 basically the subject is just ridiculed 85 00:04:07,129 --> 00:04:06,150 it is changing of course but over here 86 00:04:08,930 --> 00:04:07,139 you have an industry you have a 87 00:04:10,670 --> 00:04:08,940 community you know you can do these 88 00:04:12,050 --> 00:04:10,680 these kind of things and one thing I 89 00:04:13,699 --> 00:04:12,060 really believe is you need a tribe you 90 00:04:17,029 --> 00:04:13,709 need to get yourself around like-minded 91 00:04:18,740 --> 00:04:17,039 people and whatever your take on the 92 00:04:20,839 --> 00:04:18,750 subject matter is you can find something 93 00:04:23,899 --> 00:04:20,849 in the US that will you know that you 94 00:04:25,550 --> 00:04:23,909 can plug into I suppose so I'd made a 95 00:04:28,370 --> 00:04:25,560 few trips over here not been to this 96 00:04:29,990 --> 00:04:28,380 this conference and others before and I 97 00:04:32,089 --> 00:04:30,000 think that's what kind of got you know 98 00:04:33,200 --> 00:04:32,099 just threw the idea out there and it 99 00:04:34,820 --> 00:04:33,210 just kind of got links and here we are 100 00:04:36,589 --> 00:04:34,830 so we having a great time it's it's 101 00:04:38,540 --> 00:04:36,599 incredible the people you meet just on 102 00:04:40,640 --> 00:04:38,550 the way to this interview we stopped for 103 00:04:41,899 --> 00:04:40,650 five minutes with James Fox with Ben 104 00:04:44,570 --> 00:04:41,909 Qatar you know you know what it's like 105 00:04:47,240 --> 00:04:44,580 Paul Hani it just goes on so you know 106 00:04:48,470 --> 00:04:47,250 for us from the other side of the plane 107 00:04:50,180 --> 00:04:48,480 you know we just don't get access to 108 00:04:52,040 --> 00:04:50,190 these this these kind of people this 109 00:04:53,660 --> 00:04:52,050 kind of information and the opportunity 110 00:04:56,300 --> 00:04:53,670 it's not just the celebrities it's the 111 00:04:58,780 --> 00:04:56,310 just a people you meet just anywhere you 112 00:05:00,770 --> 00:04:58,790 know everyone's got a story you know and 113 00:05:02,480 --> 00:05:00,780 it's just incredible so I think we're 114 00:05:04,190 --> 00:05:02,490 all having a really good time and we're 115 00:05:05,240 --> 00:05:04,200 just excited it's just you know and like 116 00:05:07,130 --> 00:05:05,250 I said before it you never know what's 117 00:05:12,530 --> 00:05:07,140 gonna happen next it's just you know 118 00:05:14,900 --> 00:05:12,540 just it's just incredible so one thing 119 00:05:17,210 --> 00:05:14,910 that kind of astounded me when I started 120 00:05:19,310 --> 00:05:17,220 to look into this is how many highly 121 00:05:21,620 --> 00:05:19,320 intelligent people are interested in the 122 00:05:23,150 --> 00:05:21,630 topic and you know because on the 123 00:05:25,430 --> 00:05:23,160 outside you know growing up with 124 00:05:27,530 --> 00:05:25,440 ridicule and stuff like that you know 125 00:05:31,160 --> 00:05:27,540 here is just you know these you know 126 00:05:32,900 --> 00:05:31,170 coops and you know farmers of whatever 127 00:05:35,530 --> 00:05:32,910 and you know those are the only people 128 00:05:39,440 --> 00:05:35,540 that that's kind of like the 129 00:05:41,720 --> 00:05:39,450 misconception of absolutely and you know 130 00:05:43,730 --> 00:05:41,730 Outsiders looking in thinks well we're 131 00:05:45,920 --> 00:05:43,740 all crazy and all this you know but you 132 00:05:47,840 --> 00:05:45,930 talk to people like the JD Sheen's and 133 00:05:49,730 --> 00:05:47,850 the James foxes and the Richard Dolan 134 00:05:52,159 --> 00:05:49,740 some yourself your reputation is is 135 00:05:53,900 --> 00:05:52,169 incredible you know it you can attack 136 00:05:56,990 --> 00:05:53,910 this subject matter very credibly and 137 00:05:58,730 --> 00:05:57,000 very intelligently and that's what I 138 00:06:00,200 --> 00:05:58,740 think as a group we are very we're all 139 00:06:02,000 --> 00:06:00,210 very skeptical we're all like to think 140 00:06:04,580 --> 00:06:02,010 we we attack this very very 141 00:06:07,460 --> 00:06:04,590 intelligently but you're right I mean 142 00:06:10,040 --> 00:06:07,470 yeah yeah and it's changing before our 143 00:06:11,360 --> 00:06:10,050 eyes this the subject matter is is 144 00:06:13,400 --> 00:06:11,370 unfolding before our eyes people 145 00:06:15,340 --> 00:06:13,410 starting to take this seriously the news 146 00:06:17,510 --> 00:06:15,350 media starting to take this seriously so 147 00:06:23,030 --> 00:06:17,520 it's it's incredible times we're going 148 00:06:25,400 --> 00:06:23,040 through okay oh hi um I come from a very 149 00:06:28,340 --> 00:06:25,410 skeptical and debunking background and 150 00:06:32,650 --> 00:06:28,350 my belief was that anybody who saw a UFO 151 00:06:34,930 --> 00:06:32,660 was on some sort of mind-altering drug 152 00:06:39,340 --> 00:06:34,940 and not right in the head 153 00:06:43,520 --> 00:06:39,350 until I moved from South Australia to 154 00:06:46,760 --> 00:06:43,530 Melbourne and through a series of events 155 00:06:49,310 --> 00:06:46,770 through my workplace was presented with 156 00:06:51,860 --> 00:06:49,320 the Westall case I'd never heard of a 157 00:06:54,110 --> 00:06:51,870 mass sighting and to me I stood up and 158 00:06:54,650 --> 00:06:54,120 took that quite seriously that there was 159 00:06:56,870 --> 00:06:54,660 such a thing 160 00:06:59,480 --> 00:06:56,880 there was a researcher a serious 161 00:07:00,410 --> 00:06:59,490 researcher Shane Ryan that was involved 162 00:07:09,050 --> 00:07:00,420 in 163 00:07:10,610 --> 00:07:09,060 the witnesses who saw the case and I 164 00:07:12,290 --> 00:07:10,620 guess anybody watching this came just 165 00:07:13,520 --> 00:07:12,300 going google Westall if they haven't 166 00:07:17,090 --> 00:07:13,530 already 167 00:07:19,840 --> 00:07:17,100 prior to that just out of curiosity I 168 00:07:24,040 --> 00:07:19,850 had wondered if there were anybody 169 00:07:26,540 --> 00:07:24,050 seriously researching your UFOs and 170 00:07:27,230 --> 00:07:26,550 after doing a lot of digging on the 171 00:07:29,510 --> 00:07:27,240 Internet 172 00:07:31,580 --> 00:07:29,520 I discovered Keith pastor field and he's 173 00:07:34,400 --> 00:07:31,590 from my home state of South Australia 174 00:07:37,130 --> 00:07:34,410 and I was amazed to see his methodical 175 00:07:39,860 --> 00:07:37,140 and thorough research and compiling of 176 00:07:42,500 --> 00:07:39,870 cases for many years one of the cases I 177 00:07:43,760 --> 00:07:42,510 noticed was in the next street from 178 00:07:47,210 --> 00:07:43,770 where I grew up 179 00:07:49,070 --> 00:07:47,220 back in the 60s early 70s I think it was 180 00:07:51,170 --> 00:07:49,080 out cut quite remember the year are not 181 00:07:53,840 --> 00:07:51,180 that really sent a chill down my spine 182 00:07:56,510 --> 00:07:53,850 and then you know I left that alone and 183 00:08:00,290 --> 00:07:56,520 then once again came across through my 184 00:08:02,810 --> 00:08:00,300 work about the West or incident and when 185 00:08:04,610 --> 00:08:02,820 the 50th anniversary came up I thought 186 00:08:07,070 --> 00:08:04,620 it would be nice to have a little picnic 187 00:08:09,200 --> 00:08:07,080 and meet the witnesses so I put a notice 188 00:08:11,960 --> 00:08:09,210 out on Facebook and invited anybody to 189 00:08:15,470 --> 00:08:11,970 come and have a moment silent sort of 190 00:08:20,750 --> 00:08:15,480 remembering the incident April 6 1966 191 00:08:22,340 --> 00:08:20,760 and we met at the Grange and I got I had 192 00:08:25,280 --> 00:08:22,350 the pleasure of meeting some of the 193 00:08:27,170 --> 00:08:25,290 witnesses one case in particular that 194 00:08:29,780 --> 00:08:27,180 impressed me was the case of Paul Smith 195 00:08:33,890 --> 00:08:29,790 who wasn't a school child at the time he 196 00:08:37,190 --> 00:08:33,900 was a market gardener working and he saw 197 00:08:40,100 --> 00:08:37,200 the craft quite close up and he and his 198 00:08:41,660 --> 00:08:40,110 boss looked up from pulling up carrots 199 00:08:44,360 --> 00:08:41,670 and you'll probably see this on the 200 00:08:47,540 --> 00:08:44,370 video as well but he explained to me how 201 00:08:48,830 --> 00:08:47,550 the craft was hovering there in front of 202 00:08:51,170 --> 00:08:48,840 him and he wasn't sure whether there was 203 00:08:53,840 --> 00:08:51,180 a trick or an illusion or some sort of 204 00:08:56,390 --> 00:08:53,850 projection and he and the boss were 205 00:08:59,540 --> 00:08:56,400 staring at this thing and it changed 206 00:09:02,180 --> 00:08:59,550 colors and each became semi-transparent 207 00:09:04,280 --> 00:09:02,190 and it drifted through the trees and I 208 00:09:06,230 --> 00:09:04,290 actually went to the very spot with him 209 00:09:09,380 --> 00:09:06,240 and he explained to me and showed me 210 00:09:11,240 --> 00:09:09,390 where it was and he said and I said well 211 00:09:13,370 --> 00:09:11,250 what do you mean it drifted through the 212 00:09:14,190 --> 00:09:13,380 trees did it go in and around the trees 213 00:09:16,290 --> 00:09:14,200 at the Grange 214 00:09:18,000 --> 00:09:16,300 he said no it drifted through the trees 215 00:09:20,100 --> 00:09:18,010 and I said what do you mean like a ghost 216 00:09:22,769 --> 00:09:20,110 or like smoke and he said yes 217 00:09:24,480 --> 00:09:22,779 it became the consistency of smoke and I 218 00:09:27,300 --> 00:09:24,490 thought I've never heard of anything 219 00:09:29,340 --> 00:09:27,310 like this and this prompted me to keep 220 00:09:30,960 --> 00:09:29,350 looking into this phenomena I've 221 00:09:34,560 --> 00:09:30,970 discovered Jacques Vallee I've been 222 00:09:36,960 --> 00:09:34,570 reading all of his Diaries I really try 223 00:09:41,710 --> 00:09:36,970 to focus on the scientific aspect of of 224 00:09:47,160 --> 00:09:44,660 [Music] 225 00:09:50,129 --> 00:09:47,170 2017 but go ahead for the person who's 226 00:09:52,019 --> 00:09:50,139 never heard your story just you know go 227 00:09:52,829 --> 00:09:52,029 into you know my pet was interested in 228 00:09:55,439 --> 00:09:52,839 it in the beginning 229 00:09:58,530 --> 00:09:55,449 yeah well going into the beginning I was 230 00:10:00,120 --> 00:09:58,540 into UFOs as a child the first books I 231 00:10:01,860 --> 00:10:00,130 bought were books on UFOs and I was 232 00:10:04,560 --> 00:10:01,870 familiar with the Travis Walton case and 233 00:10:06,660 --> 00:10:04,570 Betty and Barney Hill cases of that 234 00:10:09,060 --> 00:10:06,670 stature right back in the nineteen 235 00:10:11,340 --> 00:10:09,070 seventies not long after the Walton 236 00:10:13,889 --> 00:10:11,350 incident and it really captured my 237 00:10:15,240 --> 00:10:13,899 imagination as a child that there the 238 00:10:18,120 --> 00:10:15,250 possibility of there being other 239 00:10:20,280 --> 00:10:18,130 intelligences out there that would be 240 00:10:22,079 --> 00:10:20,290 visiting us for whatever reason and to 241 00:10:23,460 --> 00:10:22,089 me it seemed quite a natural thing even 242 00:10:25,110 --> 00:10:23,470 at a young age it was just seemed very 243 00:10:27,780 --> 00:10:25,120 intuitive that it was actually a fact 244 00:10:29,900 --> 00:10:27,790 that they really used a no question to 245 00:10:31,949 --> 00:10:29,910 it so that was my own personal belief 246 00:10:34,199 --> 00:10:31,959 but it wasn't I had the interest all 247 00:10:36,870 --> 00:10:34,209 through my life you know so I always 248 00:10:38,759 --> 00:10:36,880 read UFO books and stuff like that but 249 00:10:41,009 --> 00:10:38,769 it drift in and out you know with life 250 00:10:43,170 --> 00:10:41,019 busy busy and then when I turned about 251 00:10:44,699 --> 00:10:43,180 40 I thought I really want to get back 252 00:10:47,639 --> 00:10:44,709 into UFOs and I thought I want to 253 00:10:48,960 --> 00:10:47,649 investigate UFOs I want to get out there 254 00:10:50,819 --> 00:10:48,970 and I want to actually be a part of 255 00:10:53,639 --> 00:10:50,829 something that's that's actively 256 00:10:55,800 --> 00:10:53,649 exploring this and I live three hours 257 00:10:58,199 --> 00:10:55,810 from Melbourne I don't live anywhere 258 00:10:59,730 --> 00:10:58,209 near the city and unfortunately in 259 00:11:01,590 --> 00:10:59,740 Australia really at that time there 260 00:11:04,079 --> 00:11:01,600 wasn't really much going on particularly 261 00:11:06,809 --> 00:11:04,089 in our state view force had closed down 262 00:11:08,730 --> 00:11:06,819 they'd petered out by the early 2000s so 263 00:11:10,710 --> 00:11:08,740 there was nothing really active from a 264 00:11:12,540 --> 00:11:10,720 from a really active group point of view 265 00:11:15,540 --> 00:11:12,550 George Simpson was having some meetings 266 00:11:16,889 --> 00:11:15,550 down in Chelsea dragging along some of 267 00:11:18,210 --> 00:11:16,899 the old view force members and that was 268 00:11:20,129 --> 00:11:18,220 the first my first introduction to 269 00:11:22,590 --> 00:11:20,139 sitting around with people discussing 270 00:11:24,240 --> 00:11:22,600 UFOs at that meeting I met another man 271 00:11:25,800 --> 00:11:24,250 called Andrew Arnold who was trying to 272 00:11:27,130 --> 00:11:25,810 get a UFO group up and running which was 273 00:11:28,900 --> 00:11:27,140 a Victorian UFO action 274 00:11:30,220 --> 00:11:28,910 and he and I hit it off pretty well 275 00:11:32,110 --> 00:11:30,230 straightaway 276 00:11:34,230 --> 00:11:32,120 and he saw something in me what that was 277 00:11:36,190 --> 00:11:34,240 I don't know but we got together and 278 00:11:40,000 --> 00:11:36,200 along with a couple of other people we 279 00:11:42,490 --> 00:11:40,010 started to reconstruct a group again in 280 00:11:45,100 --> 00:11:42,500 our state so view force had been there 281 00:11:46,870 --> 00:11:45,110 for over 50 years they'd had a huge 282 00:11:48,730 --> 00:11:46,880 backlog of cases they investigated they 283 00:11:50,319 --> 00:11:48,740 did all the big cases from our state and 284 00:11:53,410 --> 00:11:50,329 here we were in the new millennium 285 00:11:55,569 --> 00:11:53,420 trying to recruit to recreate what they 286 00:11:57,340 --> 00:11:55,579 had been doing for the previous 50 years 287 00:12:00,639 --> 00:11:57,350 with very little other than ourselves 288 00:12:02,530 --> 00:12:00,649 and a camera popping out to locations 289 00:12:03,970 --> 00:12:02,540 talking to witnesses swatting flies in 290 00:12:06,360 --> 00:12:03,980 the Sun all that sort of stuff we made 291 00:12:09,759 --> 00:12:06,370 we made videos we created a you a 292 00:12:11,230 --> 00:12:09,769 website and Facebook pages and then 293 00:12:13,150 --> 00:12:11,240 gradually we had we had more people 294 00:12:14,620 --> 00:12:13,160 start to join us start to get interested 295 00:12:16,090 --> 00:12:14,630 and it was a bit of a revolving door at 296 00:12:18,280 --> 00:12:16,100 the start we had people coming through 297 00:12:19,569 --> 00:12:18,290 the group you know deciding it's not for 298 00:12:21,250 --> 00:12:19,579 them for whatever reason and you have 299 00:12:23,170 --> 00:12:21,260 this sort of you know turnover of people 300 00:12:24,940 --> 00:12:23,180 but after a while it started to stick 301 00:12:27,250 --> 00:12:24,950 and we started to get some really good 302 00:12:28,900 --> 00:12:27,260 people coming along and we were just 303 00:12:30,940 --> 00:12:28,910 pinching ourselves at the quality of the 304 00:12:33,100 --> 00:12:30,950 people that were coming to our meetings 305 00:12:34,960 --> 00:12:33,110 and not just coming to the meetings 306 00:12:36,280 --> 00:12:34,970 actually wanting to come back so that 307 00:12:38,800 --> 00:12:36,290 was really good too we had a couple of 308 00:12:40,210 --> 00:12:38,810 conferences that we did that was a good 309 00:12:43,120 --> 00:12:40,220 start and that's where the likes of Jim 310 00:12:44,230 --> 00:12:43,130 came along and you know Monica popped up 311 00:12:47,290 --> 00:12:44,240 and all the other guys here at the table 312 00:12:48,780 --> 00:12:47,300 popped up and we're so glad they did but 313 00:12:50,980 --> 00:12:48,790 very grateful for their for their input 314 00:12:53,290 --> 00:12:50,990 so for me it was about getting out there 315 00:12:55,329 --> 00:12:53,300 and talking to the witnesses I had a 316 00:12:58,300 --> 00:12:55,339 great passion for for UFO cases I 317 00:13:00,730 --> 00:12:58,310 believe the witnesses I believed their 318 00:13:03,550 --> 00:13:00,740 stories and we wanted to get out to the 319 00:13:05,079 --> 00:13:03,560 locations and preserve the history the 320 00:13:09,759 --> 00:13:05,089 UFO history and also at the same time 321 00:13:12,610 --> 00:13:09,769 offer new current people the opportunity 322 00:13:14,170 --> 00:13:12,620 to report UFOs as well so the whole 323 00:13:17,110 --> 00:13:14,180 thing grew out of grew out of really 324 00:13:20,530 --> 00:13:17,120 just just good old-fashioned keenness 325 00:13:22,900 --> 00:13:20,540 and a desire to to do it and drive to 326 00:13:26,050 --> 00:13:22,910 Melbourne for the month after month 6 327 00:13:32,250 --> 00:13:26,060 our return trips you know trying to get 328 00:13:35,800 --> 00:13:34,210 yeah well if you look at a map of 329 00:13:37,269 --> 00:13:35,810 Australia and a map of Victoria I'm up 330 00:13:39,699 --> 00:13:37,279 in the pointy end of the state which is 331 00:13:41,650 --> 00:13:39,709 in the east it is three hours from Elms 332 00:13:46,180 --> 00:13:41,660 the wilderness area keeps laying as a 333 00:13:48,400 --> 00:13:46,190 fantastic UFO location the UFO the UFO 334 00:13:50,500 --> 00:13:48,410 history in Victoria is very rich every 335 00:13:53,110 --> 00:13:50,510 region of our state has it has a quite 336 00:13:54,639 --> 00:13:53,120 an extensive UFO history it is worth 337 00:13:56,230 --> 00:13:54,649 preserving so that we know what's 338 00:13:57,970 --> 00:13:56,240 happened in the past what so we can see 339 00:13:59,860 --> 00:13:57,980 what's happening in the future maybe we 340 00:14:03,460 --> 00:13:59,870 can make some connections between past 341 00:14:05,350 --> 00:14:03,470 and future and present so it was it was 342 00:14:06,790 --> 00:14:05,360 a big job you know it's a big job 343 00:14:08,620 --> 00:14:06,800 getting anything going you know whether 344 00:14:10,480 --> 00:14:08,630 it's a scout group or anything if 345 00:14:11,920 --> 00:14:10,490 basketball club whatever it is it takes 346 00:14:13,629 --> 00:14:11,930 a lot of a lot of work and a lot of 347 00:14:16,240 --> 00:14:13,639 effort and particularly with with a 348 00:14:17,889 --> 00:14:16,250 topic like UFOs where there's not a lot 349 00:14:20,170 --> 00:14:17,899 of support for that in the community 350 00:14:22,269 --> 00:14:20,180 really it really is a niche type of an 351 00:14:23,829 --> 00:14:22,279 interest which fortunately in this day 352 00:14:26,079 --> 00:14:23,839 and age is becoming a lot more 353 00:14:27,910 --> 00:14:26,089 widespread and I'm not talking just the 354 00:14:29,740 --> 00:14:27,920 pop culture stuff the pop culture stuff 355 00:14:31,990 --> 00:14:29,750 is out there and everybody loves all 356 00:14:33,610 --> 00:14:32,000 that it's a lot of fun but the research 357 00:14:35,199 --> 00:14:33,620 side of things is really what we really 358 00:14:37,420 --> 00:14:35,209 need to get going we really need the 359 00:14:39,699 --> 00:14:37,430 research we need the scientists have 360 00:14:41,290 --> 00:14:39,709 been involved there's a whole host but 361 00:14:42,460 --> 00:14:41,300 the biologist as a whole host of people 362 00:14:44,829 --> 00:14:42,470 that really need to take it take it 363 00:14:47,860 --> 00:14:44,839 seriously you know and since the Air 364 00:14:50,079 --> 00:14:47,870 Force you know lost interest back in the 365 00:14:51,730 --> 00:14:50,089 in the 60s that and they said look just 366 00:14:53,590 --> 00:14:51,740 just go to the civilian clubs if you've 367 00:14:55,720 --> 00:14:53,600 got it if you've got a UFO report go to 368 00:14:58,809 --> 00:14:55,730 view force go to UFO research Queensland 369 00:15:00,370 --> 00:14:58,819 New South Wales don't bother us go to 370 00:15:01,509 --> 00:15:00,380 those groups but but the groups don't 371 00:15:04,090 --> 00:15:01,519 have any support they've got a really 372 00:15:05,139 --> 00:15:04,100 soft generate their own their own income 373 00:15:08,439 --> 00:15:05,149 and there's only one way you can do that 374 00:15:09,699 --> 00:15:08,449 and that's by hosting speakers maybe you 375 00:15:11,680 --> 00:15:09,709 can get some government grants if you're 376 00:15:14,139 --> 00:15:11,690 savvy enough with operating through that 377 00:15:15,699 --> 00:15:14,149 system and paperwork but for UFO groups 378 00:15:18,340 --> 00:15:15,709 it's kind of I don't think we'd be at 379 00:15:19,990 --> 00:15:18,350 the top of the list for for issuing 380 00:15:22,990 --> 00:15:20,000 funds there's probably probably give it 381 00:15:29,740 --> 00:15:23,000 to a pony club over us say yeah 382 00:15:31,240 --> 00:15:29,750 unfortunately that's the way it is yes I 383 00:15:32,050 --> 00:15:31,250 did yes bit of a fan of your show it's a 384 00:15:34,240 --> 00:15:32,060 good show 385 00:15:36,850 --> 00:15:34,250 my name's Chris I'm from Victoria 386 00:15:39,160 --> 00:15:36,860 trailer as well I also live in Gippsland 387 00:15:41,920 --> 00:15:39,170 not far from Ben in a place called 388 00:15:43,360 --> 00:15:41,930 Golden Beach I've been probably taking 389 00:15:45,010 --> 00:15:43,370 this subject more serious in the past 390 00:15:47,139 --> 00:15:45,020 five years 391 00:15:48,699 --> 00:15:47,149 prior to that I would watch the subject 392 00:15:50,860 --> 00:15:48,709 but not really investigate it too much 393 00:15:53,470 --> 00:15:50,870 or read much of the books but I did have 394 00:15:55,360 --> 00:15:53,480 a sighting in 91 where I saw a disc I 395 00:15:57,280 --> 00:15:55,370 thought I was crazy for about 6 years 396 00:15:59,470 --> 00:15:57,290 until I spoke to a mum and she had a 397 00:16:03,040 --> 00:15:59,480 similar experience so I guess that's 398 00:16:04,690 --> 00:16:03,050 where I sort of come in it so can you 399 00:16:06,670 --> 00:16:04,700 describe your sighting a little bit um 400 00:16:09,519 --> 00:16:06,680 yeah it was I suppose I would describe 401 00:16:10,540 --> 00:16:09,529 it as at almost a tapered egg shape type 402 00:16:12,460 --> 00:16:10,550 disc 403 00:16:13,780 --> 00:16:12,470 it was probably within a kilometer from 404 00:16:15,850 --> 00:16:13,790 where I was standing it came up from 405 00:16:17,530 --> 00:16:15,860 behind some trees and just flew up 406 00:16:20,110 --> 00:16:17,540 through the clouds and off it went it 407 00:16:22,210 --> 00:16:20,120 probably lasted maybe 15 to 20 seconds 408 00:16:31,990 --> 00:16:22,220 but it was enough to just be a complete 409 00:16:34,269 --> 00:16:32,000 paradigm shift hi I'm Joyce um ever 410 00:16:38,230 --> 00:16:34,279 since I was a child I always looked up 411 00:16:40,690 --> 00:16:38,240 at the stars and wondered or thinking I 412 00:16:42,670 --> 00:16:40,700 wish I was I could go home and then I 413 00:16:45,250 --> 00:16:42,680 would pinch myself and think Oh what do 414 00:16:47,199 --> 00:16:45,260 you mean you know this is home but when 415 00:16:51,160 --> 00:16:47,209 I was 15 I watched the documentary on 416 00:16:55,269 --> 00:16:51,170 the Roswell crash and was fascinated by 417 00:16:56,800 --> 00:16:55,279 it there were a few whistleblowers but 418 00:16:59,530 --> 00:16:56,810 back then their faces were blacked out 419 00:17:02,050 --> 00:16:59,540 and their voices were disguised which is 420 00:17:04,059 --> 00:17:02,060 quite interesting because now you know 421 00:17:08,199 --> 00:17:04,069 it's not the case they're quite um 422 00:17:10,840 --> 00:17:08,209 visible and and then I read witless 423 00:17:13,240 --> 00:17:10,850 troopers book communion around 15 years 424 00:17:16,090 --> 00:17:13,250 old as well and was fascinated and quite 425 00:17:19,630 --> 00:17:16,100 scared but I think from that book ho 426 00:17:22,809 --> 00:17:19,640 really developed some empathy for people 427 00:17:24,760 --> 00:17:22,819 that have experiences such as that and 428 00:17:28,740 --> 00:17:24,770 don't know where to go and and people 429 00:17:36,370 --> 00:17:28,750 just seeing that they're crazy and 430 00:17:40,750 --> 00:17:36,380 when I was about 25 I saw craft in Perth 431 00:17:42,400 --> 00:17:40,760 WI it was round and it was it would it 432 00:17:44,200 --> 00:17:42,410 was luminous and they're all dim and 433 00:17:46,090 --> 00:17:44,210 then it will glow again and it was 434 00:17:48,400 --> 00:17:46,100 moving really fast and then it was the 435 00:17:52,230 --> 00:17:48,410 exact disappear and reappear and then 436 00:17:54,510 --> 00:17:52,240 yeah move really fast again and I had 437 00:17:57,780 --> 00:17:54,520 my boyfriend at the time saw it as well 438 00:18:00,270 --> 00:17:57,790 and then I saw it another time 439 00:18:02,100 --> 00:18:00,280 the same type of type of craft about ten 440 00:18:02,690 --> 00:18:02,110 years later in New Zealand on top of a 441 00:18:05,880 --> 00:18:02,700 mountain 442 00:18:10,380 --> 00:18:05,890 still yeah the same round it would dim 443 00:18:12,930 --> 00:18:10,390 and glow doom and glow and I work as a 444 00:18:16,260 --> 00:18:12,940 psychologist so I'm really interested in 445 00:18:18,540 --> 00:18:16,270 the types of entities that people 446 00:18:20,580 --> 00:18:18,550 encounter and there's been some 447 00:18:23,610 --> 00:18:20,590 consistent types so I'm really 448 00:18:26,700 --> 00:18:23,620 interested in yeah what the culture is 449 00:18:30,210 --> 00:18:26,710 and the different types that people are 450 00:18:32,610 --> 00:18:30,220 talking about and I think that there's 451 00:18:44,250 --> 00:18:32,620 enough people talking about it to move 452 00:18:45,930 --> 00:18:44,260 forward and really learn about them my 453 00:18:49,200 --> 00:18:45,940 interest started when I was a little 454 00:18:52,560 --> 00:18:49,210 little girl my brother was interested in 455 00:18:56,280 --> 00:18:52,570 space stuff so I think I got it from him 456 00:18:58,799 --> 00:18:56,290 to some degree I remember as a kid my 457 00:19:02,220 --> 00:18:58,809 dad had Reader's Digest books into the 458 00:19:05,190 --> 00:19:02,230 unknown had pictures of aliens and you 459 00:19:07,110 --> 00:19:05,200 were foe craft and I just zoned into 460 00:19:08,730 --> 00:19:07,120 them all the time I'd flick back and 461 00:19:11,340 --> 00:19:08,740 keep looking at them and keep looking at 462 00:19:14,460 --> 00:19:11,350 them and all throughout my life I just 463 00:19:18,060 --> 00:19:14,470 wanted to say UFO never saw anything up 464 00:19:21,480 --> 00:19:18,070 until recently never been abducted never 465 00:19:24,690 --> 00:19:21,490 had anything we had happen just always 466 00:19:26,669 --> 00:19:24,700 interested and one thing led to another 467 00:19:28,049 --> 00:19:26,679 and I ended up joining this group and 468 00:19:31,410 --> 00:19:28,059 the rest is history it's been 469 00:19:38,330 --> 00:19:31,420 mind-blowing ever since then I really 470 00:19:43,240 --> 00:19:42,330 something that was available or I didn't 471 00:19:45,820 --> 00:19:43,250 even think 472 00:19:48,820 --> 00:19:45,830 any interest in the topic I really have 473 00:19:50,800 --> 00:19:48,830 no clue I would have never dreamed that 474 00:19:53,470 --> 00:19:50,810 there was gonna be a conference of any 475 00:19:55,660 --> 00:19:53,480 type on this subject ever you know and 476 00:19:58,840 --> 00:19:55,670 come to find out what's going on for 477 00:20:01,990 --> 00:19:58,850 many years I just want to ask a couple 478 00:20:03,550 --> 00:20:02,000 of different things first of all I may 479 00:20:05,680 --> 00:20:03,560 have asked you to spend but I'm not sure 480 00:20:08,470 --> 00:20:05,690 I thought I'd heard of a sighting in 481 00:20:10,540 --> 00:20:08,480 Australia that was really unusual along 482 00:20:13,330 --> 00:20:10,550 a highway where people pulled overalls 483 00:20:17,590 --> 00:20:13,340 does someone know that yes yeah that's 484 00:20:19,660 --> 00:20:17,600 the the mantra billa case in in western 485 00:20:21,070 --> 00:20:19,670 australia which is there's a lot as a 486 00:20:23,620 --> 00:20:21,080 road that basically travels from 487 00:20:25,540 --> 00:20:23,630 Adelaide to Perth and it's called what's 488 00:20:27,340 --> 00:20:25,550 the Nullarbor plain it's it's flat it's 489 00:20:31,900 --> 00:20:27,350 straight it's desolate there's nothing 490 00:20:35,380 --> 00:20:31,910 around it really is a classic desert 491 00:20:38,170 --> 00:20:35,390 area and on this particular night the 492 00:20:40,450 --> 00:20:38,180 Niles family were traveling from Perth 493 00:20:43,030 --> 00:20:40,460 across to Melbourne and though traveling 494 00:20:46,270 --> 00:20:43,040 across the Nullarbor plain and at a 495 00:20:50,650 --> 00:20:46,280 place near mantra Billa this object came 496 00:20:53,740 --> 00:20:50,660 out of the heavens and it landed on top 497 00:20:56,350 --> 00:20:53,750 of their car and it basically attached 498 00:20:59,230 --> 00:20:56,360 itself to the car and it lifted the car 499 00:21:02,320 --> 00:20:59,240 off the road as they were driving along 500 00:21:04,090 --> 00:21:02,330 and filled the car with a with a sort of 501 00:21:07,000 --> 00:21:04,100 a smoke and and they were all 502 00:21:09,070 --> 00:21:07,010 disorientated and dropped the car and 503 00:21:11,260 --> 00:21:09,080 they all ran out of the car and no of 504 00:21:13,570 --> 00:21:11,270 those terrified and apparently a truck 505 00:21:16,840 --> 00:21:13,580 driver also who was driving on the same 506 00:21:19,450 --> 00:21:16,850 road also saw it that's the basics of 507 00:21:21,490 --> 00:21:19,460 the case it got a huge amount of media 508 00:21:23,230 --> 00:21:21,500 coverage at the time a huge amount the 509 00:21:25,810 --> 00:21:23,240 media were all over it they leapt all 510 00:21:27,640 --> 00:21:25,820 over this case of his family and it was 511 00:21:29,730 --> 00:21:27,650 it was a classic example of UFO 512 00:21:32,710 --> 00:21:29,740 witnesses being treated rather poorly 513 00:21:36,040 --> 00:21:32,720 for the magnitude of the case like it 514 00:21:37,780 --> 00:21:36,050 really was a well it was a very very 515 00:21:40,210 --> 00:21:37,790 traumatic case for those involved in the 516 00:21:42,880 --> 00:21:40,220 media at the time in the late 80s took 517 00:21:44,410 --> 00:21:42,890 it as a as a bit of a joke and they 518 00:21:46,360 --> 00:21:44,420 treated the family pretty poorly the 519 00:21:48,520 --> 00:21:46,370 family was was more of a working-class 520 00:21:51,580 --> 00:21:48,530 family as well which perhaps they didn't 521 00:21:53,470 --> 00:21:51,590 present that brilliantly on TV and no 522 00:21:55,330 --> 00:21:53,480 really sort of the media to sort of 523 00:21:56,950 --> 00:21:55,340 turned into a bit of a bit of a circus 524 00:21:59,529 --> 00:21:56,960 around that time and and 525 00:22:02,200 --> 00:21:59,539 this has become very you know they were 526 00:22:03,789 --> 00:22:02,210 very bitter about that and the they 527 00:22:05,620 --> 00:22:03,799 won't talk about it now and they're very 528 00:22:07,779 --> 00:22:05,630 hard to contact the mothers passed away 529 00:22:10,840 --> 00:22:07,789 and there was about four boys that are 530 00:22:13,480 --> 00:22:10,850 scattered around Australia I think one 531 00:22:17,980 --> 00:22:13,490 of us one of the sons has died too so it 532 00:22:19,240 --> 00:22:17,990 it really UFO history all UFOs certainly 533 00:22:20,860 --> 00:22:19,250 in Australia that they sit in the 534 00:22:22,600 --> 00:22:20,870 background for so long and then 535 00:22:24,430 --> 00:22:22,610 periodically a case comes up it goes 536 00:22:25,720 --> 00:22:24,440 bang and all of a sudden it's got a lot 537 00:22:29,110 --> 00:22:25,730 of attention that was one the Kelly 538 00:22:30,310 --> 00:22:29,120 Cahill incident in the early 90s that 539 00:22:32,500 --> 00:22:30,320 was also another one that really 540 00:22:34,510 --> 00:22:32,510 captured the public's attention again 541 00:22:36,820 --> 00:22:34,520 for a while and and the media jumped 542 00:22:38,260 --> 00:22:36,830 onto that case as well and then you go 543 00:22:40,029 --> 00:22:38,270 through these long periods where where 544 00:22:41,200 --> 00:22:40,039 there's not much sort of happening well 545 00:22:44,340 --> 00:22:41,210 these things are always happening but 546 00:22:47,230 --> 00:22:44,350 but but these giant cases that jump out 547 00:22:49,180 --> 00:22:47,240 might happen once every decade or you 548 00:22:51,190 --> 00:22:49,190 know even every two decades you know and 549 00:22:53,799 --> 00:22:51,200 certainly in the modern era we haven't 550 00:22:56,470 --> 00:22:53,809 really had a mantra bilikiss we haven't 551 00:22:58,840 --> 00:22:56,480 had a westdoor we haven't had a Kelly 552 00:23:13,389 --> 00:22:58,850 Cahill encounter that's popped up 553 00:23:16,180 --> 00:23:13,399 anywhere in the country probably 554 00:23:19,269 --> 00:23:16,190 Australia's two best known and Internet 555 00:23:20,830 --> 00:23:19,279 gaining recognition internationally to 556 00:23:23,139 --> 00:23:20,840 case is very close to where we live in 557 00:23:25,000 --> 00:23:23,149 Melbourne one is the West all school 558 00:23:28,029 --> 00:23:25,010 incident and one is the Frederick 559 00:23:30,610 --> 00:23:28,039 Valentich pilot incident now both of 560 00:23:33,669 --> 00:23:30,620 those everywhere as a group were very 561 00:23:36,100 --> 00:23:33,679 close to both of those cases we have as 562 00:23:39,010 --> 00:23:36,110 a team arranged in fact only last year 563 00:23:41,409 --> 00:23:39,020 was the anniversary of the what was that 564 00:23:42,909 --> 00:23:41,419 the four or fifteen 40th of the 40th 565 00:23:45,850 --> 00:23:42,919 anniversary of the Frederick fell in 566 00:23:48,580 --> 00:23:45,860 touch now just briefly he was a pilot 21 567 00:23:51,850 --> 00:23:48,590 year old who went it's pretty well-known 568 00:23:55,180 --> 00:23:51,860 actually but here it was flying out of 569 00:23:58,419 --> 00:23:55,190 the lot our local airport was going on a 570 00:24:00,010 --> 00:23:58,429 short flight over best rate followed the 571 00:24:03,510 --> 00:24:00,020 coastline for a hundred miles or so and 572 00:24:06,549 --> 00:24:03,520 then flying over water reported back to 573 00:24:09,430 --> 00:24:06,559 the control tower that asked if there 574 00:24:10,540 --> 00:24:09,440 was any aircraft in the area the answer 575 00:24:12,280 --> 00:24:10,550 was no is there any milk 576 00:24:16,030 --> 00:24:12,290 craft in the end area the answer was no 577 00:24:17,410 --> 00:24:16,040 he was reporting that he was being 578 00:24:19,360 --> 00:24:17,420 followed by something that wasn't a 579 00:24:21,310 --> 00:24:19,370 plane there was conversation for six or 580 00:24:23,560 --> 00:24:21,320 seven minutes back between here in the 581 00:24:25,000 --> 00:24:23,570 control tower he was saying it's 582 00:24:27,910 --> 00:24:25,010 following me it's above me it's gone 583 00:24:30,040 --> 00:24:27,920 it's back again one of his final 584 00:24:32,650 --> 00:24:30,050 comments was its I can see it again and 585 00:24:34,300 --> 00:24:32,660 it's not an aircraft there was thence 586 00:24:35,710 --> 00:24:34,310 felt that was followed by some static on 587 00:24:39,580 --> 00:24:35,720 the radio and he was never seen again 588 00:24:42,250 --> 00:24:39,590 now we as you know that his mechanic is 589 00:24:43,570 --> 00:24:42,260 a member of our team his fiancee at the 590 00:24:46,690 --> 00:24:43,580 time is someone who's very well known to 591 00:24:49,750 --> 00:24:46,700 us we recently put together a conference 592 00:24:51,690 --> 00:24:49,760 and we had the fellow who was in 593 00:24:53,770 --> 00:24:51,700 communication with him from air traffic 594 00:24:56,920 --> 00:24:53,780 gentleman by the name of Steve Robey 595 00:25:01,540 --> 00:24:56,930 and Steve Robey said he believes it was 596 00:25:03,070 --> 00:25:01,550 a you know you use the word UFO so we 597 00:25:05,020 --> 00:25:03,080 put together a conference Tony are you 598 00:25:06,430 --> 00:25:05,030 pretty much a year ago around that so 599 00:25:07,810 --> 00:25:06,440 that's one of the world's most important 600 00:25:09,340 --> 00:25:07,820 cases and of course we had the west wall 601 00:25:11,680 --> 00:25:09,350 case which someone else can talk about 602 00:25:13,120 --> 00:25:11,690 perhaps and that's you know giant we've 603 00:25:15,820 --> 00:25:13,130 just come out of a presentation from 604 00:25:17,740 --> 00:25:15,830 James Fox he went to Australia two years 605 00:25:19,390 --> 00:25:17,750 ago now and he has a lot of content 606 00:25:21,550 --> 00:25:19,400 about the West world case in his 607 00:25:23,350 --> 00:25:21,560 upcoming film and that's if that's a 608 00:25:26,380 --> 00:25:23,360 very big story - I don't like siding 609 00:25:28,840 --> 00:25:26,390 siding with 200 people well documented 610 00:25:30,100 --> 00:25:28,850 including a schoolteacher so someone 611 00:25:43,150 --> 00:25:30,110 else if you like can talk about that one 612 00:25:46,240 --> 00:25:43,160 but yeah afraid for Lent I've seen like 613 00:25:48,460 --> 00:25:46,250 a reenactment audio of what was 614 00:25:51,400 --> 00:25:48,470 happening but I'm just wondering does 615 00:25:56,320 --> 00:25:51,410 the original audio exist from that the 616 00:26:01,960 --> 00:25:56,330 answer is yes and is it available the 617 00:26:04,360 --> 00:26:01,970 answer is no any idea what well what 618 00:26:06,340 --> 00:26:04,370 I've been told is that because someone 619 00:26:09,460 --> 00:26:06,350 died allegedly died or went missing in 620 00:26:11,140 --> 00:26:09,470 that incident the investigation people 621 00:26:12,700 --> 00:26:11,150 don't release the details of the case 622 00:26:14,830 --> 00:26:12,710 that's what I've been told is that 623 00:26:21,100 --> 00:26:14,840 forever I don't know Ben do you know 624 00:26:23,720 --> 00:26:21,110 that it probably is I mean the 625 00:26:26,330 --> 00:26:23,730 so at the time when when Fred 626 00:26:29,299 --> 00:26:26,340 disappeared the Department of Transport 627 00:26:31,490 --> 00:26:29,309 was parents extremely transparent they 628 00:26:33,080 --> 00:26:31,500 released the entire transcript of Fred 629 00:26:34,610 --> 00:26:33,090 and Steve rabies conversation to the 630 00:26:36,350 --> 00:26:34,620 public it was printed in the newspapers 631 00:26:39,140 --> 00:26:36,360 the very next day and you could read it 632 00:26:40,730 --> 00:26:39,150 and they didn't edit that in any way 633 00:26:46,430 --> 00:26:40,740 shape or form they they put down the 634 00:26:50,299 --> 00:26:46,440 entire conversation so an investigation 635 00:26:52,820 --> 00:26:50,309 was done then over the years with public 636 00:26:54,860 --> 00:26:52,830 government departments records get moved 637 00:26:58,490 --> 00:26:54,870 they get shipped the locations change 638 00:27:00,470 --> 00:26:58,500 they destroy records and if you approach 639 00:27:03,110 --> 00:27:00,480 the Department of Transport now and ask 640 00:27:06,529 --> 00:27:03,120 them for for a copy of that particular 641 00:27:09,680 --> 00:27:06,539 tape it just doesn't exist you can't you 642 00:27:11,779 --> 00:27:09,690 can't order that tape you can't order 643 00:27:13,549 --> 00:27:11,789 that tape because it's not there well 644 00:27:16,190 --> 00:27:13,559 you can't on that tape it was not there 645 00:27:18,560 --> 00:27:16,200 and also it's not it's classified as not 646 00:27:21,980 --> 00:27:18,570 being released the family was given a 647 00:27:23,779 --> 00:27:21,990 copy of Fred's voice so they got a tape 648 00:27:26,899 --> 00:27:23,789 with one side of the conversation that 649 00:27:29,810 --> 00:27:26,909 was everything that Fred said so the 650 00:27:31,639 --> 00:27:29,820 family did get his final words and and 651 00:27:33,710 --> 00:27:31,649 you know how that went down 652 00:27:35,480 --> 00:27:33,720 but and there's lots of reenactments 653 00:27:38,110 --> 00:27:35,490 that have been done the the the 654 00:27:47,659 --> 00:27:38,120 reenactments are actually quite good the 655 00:27:49,820 --> 00:27:47,669 as far as no not at all now fred was a 656 00:27:52,190 --> 00:27:49,830 pilot and he was working the problem 657 00:27:54,019 --> 00:27:52,200 Fred Fred and Steve were working that 658 00:27:56,600 --> 00:27:54,029 problem together and they were working 659 00:27:58,820 --> 00:27:56,610 that problem in a rational and clear and 660 00:28:02,330 --> 00:27:58,830 coherent way right through to the 661 00:28:05,440 --> 00:28:02,340 absolute very end of the transmission at 662 00:28:08,720 --> 00:28:05,450 no point in time is fred in a panic 663 00:28:11,120 --> 00:28:08,730 that's that's a misrepresentation that 664 00:28:13,880 --> 00:28:11,130 might come through in some of the some 665 00:28:16,610 --> 00:28:13,890 of the actual recreations because no one 666 00:28:19,940 --> 00:28:16,620 can really hear his voice to say what 667 00:28:21,409 --> 00:28:19,950 you know how he actually was but now 668 00:28:23,630 --> 00:28:21,419 they were working that problem in a very 669 00:28:25,909 --> 00:28:23,640 real way and if you watch on our YouTube 670 00:28:30,110 --> 00:28:25,919 channel on V file TV you can watch the 671 00:28:31,850 --> 00:28:30,120 the anniversary day that we had and 672 00:28:33,710 --> 00:28:31,860 Steve Robey really goes over that in a 673 00:28:35,540 --> 00:28:33,720 very very thorough way 674 00:28:38,930 --> 00:28:35,550 and he gives a really good breakdown of 675 00:28:41,630 --> 00:28:38,940 that event was there at any point where 676 00:28:44,170 --> 00:28:41,640 there was any like movement caused by 677 00:28:46,430 --> 00:28:44,180 the craft like four instances a coin 678 00:28:48,440 --> 00:28:46,440 helicopter case that happened here in 679 00:28:50,900 --> 00:28:48,450 the states where it actually was pulled 680 00:28:55,490 --> 00:28:50,910 lifting the elevation of the helicopter 681 00:28:58,340 --> 00:28:55,500 this he said - he said well he said one 682 00:29:00,710 --> 00:28:58,350 thing he said my engine is is my engine 683 00:29:02,660 --> 00:29:00,720 is coughing when when it was in 684 00:29:06,020 --> 00:29:02,670 proximity to the craft he described the 685 00:29:07,670 --> 00:29:06,030 craft is orbiting above him so and Hatt 686 00:29:08,990 --> 00:29:07,680 was having an effect on his engine in 687 00:29:11,300 --> 00:29:09,000 that the engine started coughing he did 688 00:29:12,890 --> 00:29:11,310 an adjustment and him and Steve were 689 00:29:15,230 --> 00:29:12,900 working were working that issue through 690 00:29:17,390 --> 00:29:15,240 at the end of the tape perhaps 691 00:29:19,460 --> 00:29:17,400 interestingly and maybe closer to what 692 00:29:21,290 --> 00:29:19,470 you're sort of talking about is there's 693 00:29:23,990 --> 00:29:21,300 an unknown sound that comes on for about 694 00:29:26,300 --> 00:29:24,000 17 seconds and it sounds like a scraping 695 00:29:28,220 --> 00:29:26,310 sound a rotating scraping sound and 696 00:29:30,080 --> 00:29:28,230 there's been a lot of conjecture over 697 00:29:32,240 --> 00:29:30,090 the years as to what that scraping sound 698 00:29:35,660 --> 00:29:32,250 is is it simply him dropping the mic is 699 00:29:38,030 --> 00:29:35,670 it is that metal rubbing on metal no one 700 00:29:40,850 --> 00:29:38,040 really knows but but his plane was 701 00:29:42,530 --> 00:29:40,860 reacting to the to the object being in 702 00:29:44,810 --> 00:29:42,540 the vicinity and there was definitely 703 00:29:51,110 --> 00:29:44,820 some type of a sound as a result of that 704 00:29:52,700 --> 00:29:51,120 contact once he the skeptics say he was 705 00:29:54,500 --> 00:29:52,710 flying upside down that's the obvious 706 00:29:56,270 --> 00:29:54,510 one and you can't fly Cessnas up/down 707 00:29:57,290 --> 00:29:56,280 for much longer than about 20 seconds 708 00:29:59,570 --> 00:29:57,300 because I actually run out of fuel 709 00:30:02,570 --> 00:29:59,580 because the fuels in the wings they said 710 00:30:05,660 --> 00:30:02,580 he went into a graveyard spiral where he 711 00:30:08,060 --> 00:30:05,670 gradually and unknowingly just descends 712 00:30:12,560 --> 00:30:08,070 and and basically ends up in the ocean 713 00:30:15,070 --> 00:30:12,570 so they're the two main theories is 714 00:30:20,350 --> 00:30:15,080 seeing reflection the moon in the water 715 00:30:22,850 --> 00:30:20,360 yes this is night flying at dusk yeah 716 00:30:26,480 --> 00:30:22,860 when we we had our 40th anniversary 717 00:30:29,870 --> 00:30:26,490 event we had it at the airport that he 718 00:30:32,150 --> 00:30:29,880 left from and we had a event span into 719 00:30:34,070 --> 00:30:32,160 the time that he left we actually 720 00:30:36,560 --> 00:30:34,080 stopped I think Steve Robey 721 00:30:39,410 --> 00:30:36,570 mentioned he said look up everyone this 722 00:30:41,330 --> 00:30:39,420 is the conditions that he had left the 723 00:30:43,760 --> 00:30:41,340 airport in this is exactly the light and 724 00:30:45,650 --> 00:30:43,770 it was just dusk it was still quite like 725 00:30:46,909 --> 00:30:45,660 it wasn't pitch black or dark or 726 00:30:50,680 --> 00:30:46,919 confusing 727 00:30:55,340 --> 00:30:50,690 to a reasonable amount yeah there's also 728 00:30:56,869 --> 00:30:55,350 been hypotheses that he's committed 729 00:30:59,419 --> 00:30:56,879 suicide or that he's faked his own 730 00:31:01,669 --> 00:30:59,429 disappearance but at the time he was 731 00:31:02,989 --> 00:31:01,679 engaged he was saying he was happy was a 732 00:31:03,499 --> 00:31:02,999 happy guy apparently we know people who 733 00:31:06,349 --> 00:31:03,509 knew him 734 00:31:08,269 --> 00:31:06,359 we know his fiancee very well so you 735 00:31:10,220 --> 00:31:08,279 know none of us believe that there's any 736 00:31:11,299 --> 00:31:10,230 that has any credibility that's for sure 737 00:31:13,940 --> 00:31:11,309 we don't know what happened we have no 738 00:31:22,119 --> 00:31:13,950 opinion but certainly I for one don't 739 00:31:26,570 --> 00:31:24,379 it actually is one of the world's 740 00:31:28,460 --> 00:31:26,580 greatest aviation mysteries and 741 00:31:31,180 --> 00:31:28,470 certainly Australia's greatest aviation 742 00:31:35,899 --> 00:31:31,190 mystery that a pilot can interact with 743 00:31:38,769 --> 00:31:35,909 some unknown craft literally just 744 00:31:40,820 --> 00:31:38,779 outside of Melbourne metropolitan area 745 00:31:43,369 --> 00:31:40,830 basically still within the control of 746 00:31:45,229 --> 00:31:43,379 the talimena Airport and disappear off 747 00:31:46,789 --> 00:31:45,239 the face of the earth and you could say 748 00:31:48,080 --> 00:31:46,799 that well logically he ended up in the 749 00:31:49,340 --> 00:31:48,090 water well they searched for two weeks 750 00:31:50,629 --> 00:31:49,350 and they didn't find any wreckage they 751 00:31:52,609 --> 00:31:50,639 didn't find anything they found an ore 752 00:31:55,099 --> 00:31:52,619 slick but the aw stick was was marine 753 00:31:57,229 --> 00:31:55,109 diesel so there's literally no sign of 754 00:31:58,909 --> 00:31:57,239 that plane and a Cessna on impact they 755 00:32:00,590 --> 00:31:58,919 be floating pieces of a cessna on the 756 00:32:02,720 --> 00:32:00,600 ocean you'd have to say no problem at 757 00:32:05,090 --> 00:32:02,730 all they'd find pieces of wing they'd 758 00:32:06,649 --> 00:32:05,100 find lifejackets they'd find anything 759 00:32:08,330 --> 00:32:06,659 like that that was that was in the plane 760 00:32:09,739 --> 00:32:08,340 he would have thought quite ease and 761 00:32:12,349 --> 00:32:09,749 they basically started searching for him 762 00:32:13,909 --> 00:32:12,359 pretty much straightaway so it would 763 00:32:15,379 --> 00:32:13,919 what happened to him no one can say but 764 00:32:23,550 --> 00:32:15,389 it certainly is one of the world's most 765 00:32:28,950 --> 00:32:26,020 that'd be pretty rare and and we we 766 00:32:32,890 --> 00:32:28,960 asked the lots of questions about Fred's 767 00:32:34,930 --> 00:32:32,900 competence as a pilot to Steve Robey and 768 00:32:36,790 --> 00:32:34,940 also his girlfriend Rhonda who went 769 00:32:38,200 --> 00:32:36,800 flying with him at every opportunity and 770 00:32:40,780 --> 00:32:38,210 in fact was meant to be on that flight 771 00:32:42,720 --> 00:32:40,790 with him but due to twists of fate she 772 00:32:45,580 --> 00:32:42,730 didn't actually end up on the plane and 773 00:32:47,800 --> 00:32:45,590 he was he was that he was a competent 774 00:32:49,090 --> 00:32:47,810 pilot and he and he he knew what he was 775 00:32:51,160 --> 00:32:49,100 doing even that was his first night 776 00:32:53,050 --> 00:32:51,170 flight and you know I say pilot in 777 00:32:54,580 --> 00:32:53,060 experience and you know logically he 778 00:32:57,070 --> 00:32:54,590 must be he must have ditched into the 779 00:32:59,380 --> 00:32:57,080 water but the conversations very strange 780 00:33:02,610 --> 00:32:59,390 it's a very strange conversation to be 781 00:33:05,530 --> 00:33:02,620 having with a flight services officer 782 00:33:07,810 --> 00:33:05,540 when you're basically a pilot is trying 783 00:33:10,000 --> 00:33:07,820 to create a career for yourself and and 784 00:33:11,740 --> 00:33:10,010 and talking about UFOs doesn't help your 785 00:33:13,330 --> 00:33:11,750 career in 1978 it wouldn't have been a 786 00:33:16,900 --> 00:33:13,340 good idea to be able to be talking about 787 00:33:18,850 --> 00:33:16,910 UFOs can I just add to that I just add 788 00:33:20,830 --> 00:33:18,860 to that there's no record of him 789 00:33:24,580 --> 00:33:20,840 actually mentioning mentioning the word 790 00:33:26,620 --> 00:33:24,590 UFO in that transcript he never 791 00:33:30,910 --> 00:33:26,630 mentioned the word UFO he just asked 792 00:33:34,120 --> 00:33:30,920 about an object or a craft but yeah yeah 793 00:33:36,550 --> 00:33:34,130 yeah he basically says is there any any 794 00:33:38,380 --> 00:33:36,560 known aircraft in the vicinity and 795 00:33:40,870 --> 00:33:38,390 they're talking about military they're 796 00:33:43,210 --> 00:33:40,880 talking about civilian and Steve Robey 797 00:33:44,290 --> 00:33:43,220 is going no no there's nothing there's 798 00:33:45,880 --> 00:33:44,300 nothing there's nothing up there with 799 00:33:47,080 --> 00:33:45,890 you there's nothing up there that should 800 00:33:49,360 --> 00:33:47,090 be with you but I but they couldn't see 801 00:33:50,800 --> 00:33:49,370 him on radar he was he was he was not 802 00:33:52,150 --> 00:33:50,810 high enough to be on the radar he was 803 00:33:54,100 --> 00:33:52,160 below that level so they couldn't 804 00:33:56,860 --> 00:33:54,110 actually see him they could only talk to 805 00:33:59,700 --> 00:33:56,870 him so they couldn't get a visual of 806 00:34:02,620 --> 00:33:59,710 what was up there with him at that time 807 00:34:04,930 --> 00:34:02,630 the transcript he also he loses sight of 808 00:34:06,370 --> 00:34:04,940 it several times and he says it's it's 809 00:34:08,560 --> 00:34:06,380 moving around me and then he says it's 810 00:34:10,000 --> 00:34:08,570 gone then he says it's on top of me you 811 00:34:19,800 --> 00:34:10,010 know so it was it was quite whatever it 812 00:34:24,930 --> 00:34:21,600 the New York Times comes up with the 813 00:34:26,820 --> 00:34:24,940 article of Pentagon researching UFOs 814 00:34:30,060 --> 00:34:26,830 kind of changed everything 815 00:34:34,020 --> 00:34:30,070 here the media started looking at more 816 00:34:36,870 --> 00:34:34,030 seriously than the topic there was the 817 00:34:37,919 --> 00:34:36,880 ridicule factor went down all the sudden 818 00:34:42,000 --> 00:34:37,929 there's a ton of more people listening 819 00:34:44,130 --> 00:34:42,010 to my shows and interested what Jake did 820 00:34:47,720 --> 00:34:44,140 anything change in us really did did you 821 00:34:50,970 --> 00:34:47,730 get this in the media there's 126 news 822 00:34:54,030 --> 00:34:50,980 stories then there definitely is the 823 00:34:55,680 --> 00:34:54,040 Australian news media jumped on to it as 824 00:34:57,780 --> 00:34:55,690 much as anyone else in the world did 825 00:35:00,720 --> 00:34:57,790 yeah for sure and you had the the 826 00:35:03,870 --> 00:35:00,730 morning shows and and various programs 827 00:35:05,400 --> 00:35:03,880 doing UFO pieces it becomes something I 828 00:35:07,970 --> 00:35:05,410 want to talk about again and on Facebook 829 00:35:11,010 --> 00:35:07,980 it's viral around the world so I think 830 00:35:12,170 --> 00:35:11,020 it definitely has gained a lot of a lot 831 00:35:15,090 --> 00:35:12,180 of traction 832 00:35:16,410 --> 00:35:15,100 you know since since coming out and and 833 00:35:18,180 --> 00:35:16,420 that's a good thing for all of us I 834 00:35:19,560 --> 00:35:18,190 think you know for for all the work that 835 00:35:20,910 --> 00:35:19,570 we're doing everyone here at the 836 00:35:22,380 --> 00:35:20,920 conference all the researchers around 837 00:35:25,260 --> 00:35:22,390 the world for the witnesses around the 838 00:35:35,310 --> 00:35:25,270 world this is all steps in the right 839 00:35:37,920 --> 00:35:35,320 direction this aspect of indigenous 840 00:35:40,410 --> 00:35:37,930 people that talked about like you know 841 00:35:43,830 --> 00:35:40,420 the star child and you know or anything 842 00:35:46,740 --> 00:35:43,840 like that and any savings that came down 843 00:35:49,130 --> 00:35:46,750 this war to them sure we're absolutely 844 00:35:51,360 --> 00:35:49,140 the aboriginals I think you've had a 845 00:35:54,930 --> 00:35:51,370 strong connection through the millennia 846 00:35:56,960 --> 00:35:54,940 with let's call them sky people for the 847 00:36:01,410 --> 00:35:56,970 sake of for the sake of the exercise 848 00:36:03,630 --> 00:36:01,420 when you go out to northern Australia up 849 00:36:06,330 --> 00:36:03,640 in the Northern Territory there are lots 850 00:36:07,950 --> 00:36:06,340 of cave paintings and the Aborigines up 851 00:36:09,810 --> 00:36:07,960 there were a lot more they weren't as 852 00:36:12,450 --> 00:36:09,820 nomadic as other areas they could live 853 00:36:14,400 --> 00:36:12,460 in areas for longer periods of time with 854 00:36:16,680 --> 00:36:14,410 with Billabong's that are full of water 855 00:36:18,390 --> 00:36:16,690 and fish plenty of fish so they kind of 856 00:36:21,150 --> 00:36:18,400 did live in the one area so they sort of 857 00:36:24,390 --> 00:36:21,160 did create a lot of a lot of record of 858 00:36:26,700 --> 00:36:24,400 what was happening in the last 20 30 40 859 00:36:29,160 --> 00:36:26,710 thousand years and like with the 860 00:36:31,280 --> 00:36:29,170 American Indians of the Southwest United 861 00:36:33,109 --> 00:36:31,290 States there's there's a lot of 862 00:36:34,759 --> 00:36:33,119 interesting pain 863 00:36:37,190 --> 00:36:34,769 things that are on these walls ochre 864 00:36:39,769 --> 00:36:37,200 paintings with different symbols and 865 00:36:41,930 --> 00:36:39,779 symbology and even if you are looking at 866 00:36:43,460 --> 00:36:41,940 it from a 21st century perspective and 867 00:36:46,279 --> 00:36:43,470 you look at some of those some of those 868 00:36:48,799 --> 00:36:46,289 images it's hard not to see astronauts 869 00:36:51,819 --> 00:36:48,809 it's hard not to see spaceships it's 870 00:36:54,170 --> 00:36:51,829 hard not to see some type of entity 871 00:36:57,430 --> 00:36:54,180 depiction that they've put down into the 872 00:37:01,309 --> 00:36:57,440 into their record into their you know 873 00:37:05,269 --> 00:37:01,319 onto the walls of their caves so but 874 00:37:07,190 --> 00:37:05,279 it's a whole other topic on its own the 875 00:37:08,539 --> 00:37:07,200 Aboriginal community I don't know 876 00:37:10,489 --> 00:37:08,549 whether it's all of them but at least 877 00:37:13,210 --> 00:37:10,499 some of them do say that they come from 878 00:37:16,519 --> 00:37:13,220 the Pleiades that's part of their 879 00:37:18,200 --> 00:37:16,529 folklore or their you know the the story 880 00:37:20,239 --> 00:37:18,210 that they passed down to their children 881 00:37:23,630 --> 00:37:20,249 from generations so that's interesting 882 00:37:25,579 --> 00:37:23,640 yeah and there's there's the stories of 883 00:37:29,150 --> 00:37:25,589 them landing on the ground and 884 00:37:30,410 --> 00:37:29,160 interacting with with aboriginals the 885 00:37:32,450 --> 00:37:30,420 about there in the Northern Territory 886 00:37:33,950 --> 00:37:32,460 Western Australia there's various but 887 00:37:35,900 --> 00:37:33,960 they're always vague reports they're not 888 00:37:37,670 --> 00:37:35,910 they're not well-documented they're 889 00:37:39,589 --> 00:37:37,680 they're almost urban legends in many 890 00:37:41,269 --> 00:37:39,599 ways and and and really someone needs to 891 00:37:44,420 --> 00:37:41,279 take the take the time and effort to go 892 00:37:47,809 --> 00:37:44,430 out to those communities and and earn 893 00:37:49,880 --> 00:37:47,819 their trust and and you know try and get 894 00:37:52,489 --> 00:37:49,890 these stories perhaps with a little bit 895 00:37:54,859 --> 00:37:52,499 more detail if that's even possible so 896 00:37:56,239 --> 00:37:54,869 but at the end of the day yeah the UFO 897 00:37:59,839 --> 00:37:56,249 phenomenon has been around our country 898 00:38:01,430 --> 00:37:59,849 for for a very long time and you know 899 00:38:07,640 --> 00:38:01,440 right from ancient millennia right 900 00:38:08,660 --> 00:38:07,650 through to now well they know Jim 901 00:38:10,279 --> 00:38:08,670 Publica does have a little bit to say on 902 00:38:12,920 --> 00:38:10,289 this to you but basically they followed 903 00:38:15,559 --> 00:38:12,930 the American line pretty much through 904 00:38:16,579 --> 00:38:15,569 through you know modern time that's 905 00:38:18,620 --> 00:38:16,589 that's all I have to say Jim can 906 00:38:20,120 --> 00:38:18,630 probably add a bit more yeah I kind of 907 00:38:21,979 --> 00:38:20,130 follow of all the people in the group 908 00:38:23,989 --> 00:38:21,989 I'm probably closest to the Distilled 909 00:38:25,549 --> 00:38:23,999 they cover up and disclose your side of 910 00:38:28,220 --> 00:38:25,559 things the shorter answer is they don't 911 00:38:31,759 --> 00:38:28,230 there's been there's been just radio 912 00:38:33,470 --> 00:38:31,769 silence and areand personally I think I 913 00:38:35,989 --> 00:38:33,480 know a thing if whatever your government 914 00:38:37,789 --> 00:38:35,999 knows I don't think we're copied in if I 915 00:38:40,069 --> 00:38:37,799 could rewind though to your question 916 00:38:42,049 --> 00:38:40,079 about the the media coverage and stuff 917 00:38:44,859 --> 00:38:42,059 before only a week before he came here 918 00:38:48,309 --> 00:38:44,869 there's a TV show called the project 919 00:38:51,309 --> 00:38:48,319 and it's it's it's a news show with a 920 00:38:53,200 --> 00:38:51,319 comedy bent and we couldn't believe it 921 00:38:54,849 --> 00:38:53,210 there in a story that started with is 922 00:38:57,430 --> 00:38:54,859 this something could there be something 923 00:38:58,269 --> 00:38:57,440 to this UFO thing after all and they ran 924 00:39:00,609 --> 00:38:58,279 the Nimitz story 925 00:39:03,489 --> 00:39:00,619 I ran the nemeth story David flavor the 926 00:39:04,989 --> 00:39:03,499 whole thing and you know and okay there 927 00:39:06,670 --> 00:39:04,999 was a few jokes towards the end but 928 00:39:08,109 --> 00:39:06,680 that's that's a big step forward 929 00:39:11,410 --> 00:39:08,119 we weren't none of us were getting this 930 00:39:12,849 --> 00:39:11,420 stuff a year ago you know look what 931 00:39:15,009 --> 00:39:12,859 you've what's been happening here 932 00:39:18,430 --> 00:39:15,019 so there's definitely shifting in 933 00:39:20,170 --> 00:39:18,440 culture I think you know there's always 934 00:39:21,880 --> 00:39:20,180 the disclaimers they're not they're not 935 00:39:23,799 --> 00:39:21,890 giving a good coverage but we're 936 00:39:25,480 --> 00:39:23,809 definitely seeing a shift but from the 937 00:39:27,700 --> 00:39:25,490 government not nothing you know that 938 00:39:31,779 --> 00:39:27,710 anyone else seen anything that nothing 939 00:39:33,730 --> 00:39:31,789 at all no the government's very yeah 940 00:39:34,839 --> 00:39:33,740 yeah Jim's right I think they see the 941 00:39:37,089 --> 00:39:34,849 Australian Government hasn't anything at 942 00:39:39,640 --> 00:39:37,099 all really you know in any of our any 943 00:40:04,690 --> 00:39:39,650 evidence from our case cases footage 944 00:40:10,390 --> 00:40:07,720 serve military sightings and there's an 945 00:40:12,760 --> 00:40:10,400 awful lot of them and it is just very 946 00:40:15,190 --> 00:40:12,770 dry to read like this person this these 947 00:40:16,720 --> 00:40:15,200 personnel notice this this object or 948 00:40:20,890 --> 00:40:16,730 this craft that was behaving unusually 949 00:40:22,809 --> 00:40:20,900 and you know just a very dry record but 950 00:40:24,970 --> 00:40:22,819 there there is quite a volume of them 951 00:40:26,760 --> 00:40:24,980 obviously not the volume that is had in 952 00:40:30,490 --> 00:40:26,770 the United States because of the 953 00:40:32,289 --> 00:40:30,500 comparison of population but it is there 954 00:40:35,410 --> 00:40:32,299 but it is not known by the general 955 00:40:37,240 --> 00:40:35,420 public I think in my experience in 956 00:40:40,589 --> 00:40:37,250 talking to people about my interest if 957 00:40:43,809 --> 00:40:40,599 somebody asks me there's a certain age 958 00:40:46,180 --> 00:40:43,819 cutoff where people who are over a 959 00:40:48,220 --> 00:40:46,190 certain age are still smoking and 960 00:40:49,990 --> 00:40:48,230 ridiculing this yet the younger 961 00:40:51,640 --> 00:40:50,000 generation are very much more accepting 962 00:40:54,490 --> 00:40:51,650 because they seem to be much more 963 00:40:55,930 --> 00:40:54,500 informed because they have grown up with 964 00:40:57,730 --> 00:40:55,940 the internet and they can source 965 00:40:59,890 --> 00:40:57,740 information if they're curious about 966 00:41:03,970 --> 00:40:59,900 something they will look it up or as I 967 00:41:05,589 --> 00:41:03,980 guess people above 50 55 60 there's 968 00:41:07,210 --> 00:41:05,599 still a proportion that I think you 969 00:41:09,789 --> 00:41:07,220 don't believe in you opposed you as 970 00:41:12,579 --> 00:41:09,799 though it's a belief and my response is 971 00:41:14,799 --> 00:41:12,589 I don't believe in anything I'm an 972 00:41:17,940 --> 00:41:14,809 atheist I don't see it as a religion or 973 00:41:20,410 --> 00:41:17,950 a spiritual pursuit for me I see it as a 974 00:41:23,710 --> 00:41:20,420 point of scientific interest that needs 975 00:41:26,140 --> 00:41:23,720 more study so and then when it is 976 00:41:28,870 --> 00:41:26,150 explained that the military all over the 977 00:41:32,500 --> 00:41:28,880 world are encountering so trained 978 00:41:35,069 --> 00:41:32,510 observers are encountering these objects 979 00:41:38,829 --> 00:41:35,079 in these craft and sometimes entities 980 00:41:42,120 --> 00:41:38,839 then it's quite sobering for the person 981 00:41:44,950 --> 00:41:42,130 who is ready to ridicule the topic okay 982 00:41:46,780 --> 00:41:44,960 Kris over there actually has an Air 983 00:41:48,849 --> 00:41:46,790 Force background I'm wondering if chris 984 00:41:53,410 --> 00:41:48,859 has sensed any any change in perception 985 00:41:55,059 --> 00:41:53,420 or no not that I've noticed at the 986 00:41:57,430 --> 00:41:55,069 moment I'm I'm a contractor at the 987 00:42:00,579 --> 00:41:57,440 moment to the Air Force so I'm not 988 00:42:02,859 --> 00:42:00,589 actually you know and if I was personnel 989 00:42:05,380 --> 00:42:02,869 but even miles you know I hadn't really 990 00:42:09,460 --> 00:42:05,390 seen anything like that so I highly 991 00:42:11,079 --> 00:42:09,470 doubt it but yeah well I definitely talk 992 00:42:12,309 --> 00:42:11,089 about UFOs at work that's for sure like 993 00:42:15,980 --> 00:42:12,319 I don't it's just one of those things 994 00:42:18,970 --> 00:42:15,990 what about recently when the u.s. 995 00:42:22,310 --> 00:42:18,980 is saying that they're going to arrange 996 00:42:23,750 --> 00:42:22,320 reporting of UFO sightings that must 997 00:42:25,880 --> 00:42:23,760 have made some type of river well we 998 00:42:28,190 --> 00:42:25,890 think so maybe the high level but at the 999 00:42:29,750 --> 00:42:28,200 lower levels where I would operate no I 1000 00:42:31,370 --> 00:42:29,760 haven't seen any of that no but I would 1001 00:42:35,030 --> 00:42:31,380 hope so I would definitely hope so you 1002 00:42:36,560 --> 00:42:35,040 want if a pilot or Navy personnel to 1003 00:42:47,180 --> 00:42:36,570 have a sighting you'd want the 1004 00:42:54,530 --> 00:42:47,190 appropriate way to report it sometimes 1005 00:42:57,770 --> 00:42:54,540 no we're pretty good sometimes but we've 1006 00:42:59,960 --> 00:42:57,780 got a really good group of people we we 1007 00:43:01,220 --> 00:42:59,970 all have come from different backgrounds 1008 00:43:02,930 --> 00:43:01,230 completely different backgrounds 1009 00:43:04,910 --> 00:43:02,940 completely different points of view on 1010 00:43:07,250 --> 00:43:04,920 the topic but the type where the topic 1011 00:43:09,020 --> 00:43:07,260 itself draws us together we look we're 1012 00:43:11,420 --> 00:43:09,030 all interested in different aspects of 1013 00:43:14,570 --> 00:43:11,430 the topic and of course we have a 1014 00:43:17,030 --> 00:43:14,580 healthy disagreements where I think this 1015 00:43:18,710 --> 00:43:17,040 is the the theory and this is my theory 1016 00:43:20,030 --> 00:43:18,720 on what it is and then one of us will 1017 00:43:22,640 --> 00:43:20,040 disagree and we'll have a healthy 1018 00:43:24,260 --> 00:43:22,650 discussion and we'll both learn or each 1019 00:43:27,800 --> 00:43:24,270 of us will learn from the other person's 1020 00:43:29,329 --> 00:43:27,810 point of view but that's the dumb thing 1021 00:43:31,370 --> 00:43:29,339 in the scientific community the the 1022 00:43:32,900 --> 00:43:31,380 mainstream scientific community - where 1023 00:43:34,130 --> 00:43:32,910 scientists will put out a theory and 1024 00:43:37,490 --> 00:43:34,140 someone else will come along and 1025 00:43:40,070 --> 00:43:37,500 disprove it and yes so it's no no 1026 00:43:42,230 --> 00:43:40,080 different but but yes we do get on we 1027 00:43:43,880 --> 00:43:42,240 love each other yeah we do that's right 1028 00:43:46,070 --> 00:43:43,890 we I said we do all have different 1029 00:43:47,839 --> 00:43:46,080 perspectives on it and and yeah and 1030 00:43:49,760 --> 00:43:47,849 sometimes we can we can flare up with 1031 00:43:52,430 --> 00:43:49,770 with a vigorous and healthy discussion 1032 00:43:53,599 --> 00:43:52,440 about that but crucially yokan these 1033 00:43:55,250 --> 00:43:53,609 road trips when you've all got up being 1034 00:43:56,599 --> 00:43:55,260 cars on certain times and meet at 1035 00:43:59,450 --> 00:43:56,609 certain locations and things like that 1036 00:44:00,920 --> 00:43:59,460 that puts us all under pressure - and so 1037 00:44:02,780 --> 00:44:00,930 far the trips been going really really 1038 00:44:07,910 --> 00:44:02,790 well and I think it's going to be a 1039 00:44:09,560 --> 00:44:07,920 great memory for all of us we don't have 1040 00:44:12,260 --> 00:44:09,570 to call each other we just sort of like 1041 00:44:13,790 --> 00:44:12,270 think about well we have to meet and 1042 00:44:15,230 --> 00:44:13,800 then we ended up meeting with everything 1043 00:44:18,260 --> 00:44:15,240 yeah we all just kind of arrived at this 1044 00:44:19,609 --> 00:44:18,270 from different directions it's can I'd 1045 00:44:21,200 --> 00:44:19,619 wait after the conference we're heading 1046 00:44:22,970 --> 00:44:21,210 down to Socorro New Mexico we're doing a 1047 00:44:25,849 --> 00:44:22,980 bit of work there we're getting on to 1048 00:44:27,660 --> 00:44:25,859 the debris field down at Roswell a few 1049 00:44:30,960 --> 00:44:27,670 other things here we're doing a real UFO 1050 00:44:32,849 --> 00:44:30,970 - pretty pretty exciting me very good 1051 00:44:34,950 --> 00:44:32,859 well thank you all very much it's been a 1052 00:44:36,710 --> 00:44:34,960 real pleasure and I'm really glad to be 1053 00:44:39,180 --> 00:44:36,720 willing to do this and thank you all for 1054 00:44:47,730 --> 00:44:39,190 thank every Australian Ellison to the